|
|
Veteran
Posts: 116
Location: Midland ,Texas | quadbob - 2010-07-17 11:01 AM
this may sound dumb! but when and where did the corner refs GO! we had them for years! and now there are none. just bring back the corner judges and be done with it!
if the rolling refs aren't up to par then add a skating portion to there refs test! lets say they need to be able to do at least a 12 second lap or something of that nature. as far as the 15 foot pylon get over it! everyone skated for years with know cone! and for a few lousy years it was there and everyones spoiled! geese! push your partner harder to scrub off more of your speed if your that darn fast!
Alot of times corner refs are regional refs that are asked to volunteer once we get to nationals.
Needless to say many turn it down considering most are skating too. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1447
 
| At Nationals, almost always there are 2 corner refs who are numbered refs who roll one race, then are on corner the next race, partly to rest, but also to give another perspective from outside the track, and the perspective that a standing ref can give. This year sometimes there were 3 or 4 numbered corner refs at a time. Corner refs do make calls, and radio them to a rolling ref to take the skater out.
Non-numbered corner refs are also used when available, not to make calls, but to replace pylons so the numbered refs can focus on skaters. USARS has requested volunteer corner refs each year, a while before IDN. This position is open to commissioned refs; I think a C level commission is required. Of course, volunteers are also requested at IDN. This is a job that doesn't require much energy, mostly just standing, and has been done by skaters, including this year. Anyone qualified can volunteer at any time, no need to wait until IDN. And shifts are flexible. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Fort Pierce, FL | Richard...I appreciate the compliment but NO ONE ever listens to me......if there is one thing I have learned over my 27 years of coaching it's that we do things in this sport in certain ways and certain rules exist ONLY because we have ALWAYS done tham that way. Until a crisis arises or one of the "good old boys" wants it changed the reallly important changes, those that could have a positive impact on our sport, are rarely if ever addressed. The problem is there IS a crisis, the dam is leaking, and all we do is stick our finger in the hole instead of fixing it...WHY...because that's how we ALWAYS have done it in the past.
Jim..the words "VOLUNTEER" and "NATIONAL REFEREE" should be mutually exclusive. We increase fees for EVERYTHING else but we don't increase fees to insure we have the quality of referee we need at our CHAMPIONSHIP events. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but IF we paid our refs a decent amount for working IDN and ODN not only would we end up with a better quality of referee but we would no doubt have more in the pool to choose from because more would want to do it. IF we gave them more money and the pool was larger we could tie their future ability to work these meets to some sort of quality control survey taken from the coaches and other meet officials. I for one would not mind paying more for my coaches credentials PROVIDED that ALL of the increase went to securing the BEST of the BEST officials for IDN and ODN. It would make my job much easier and most likely help keep more skaters in the sport. Right now we are still asking for "VOLUNTEERS"....why....see my comment above to Richard. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: east coast | harry more people are listening to you than you think take care. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Fort Pierce, FL | That sounded rather ominous Jeff.....never been one not to say what I;m thinking and it has OFTEN gotten me AND my team in trouble. Given that....I wouldn't change a word...at least MY conscience is clear. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 431
| Again I agree with the standing refs. They can see more because they are focused only on the race and not where they themselves are going. Then they need to get together and make up their mind, if a skater bumps another unintentionally do they disqualify that skater or let it slide? Then stick with that decision for every bump in every race at every meet. I feel pushing another skater out with a hand or forearm should be a DQ but just because a hip made contact should never be called. What if that hip bumped in a turn was caused by the other skater seeing a pass coming so they stepped in early on the passing skater? Let the racers race and only DQ a skater if they really did something worthy of a DQ.
As far as video replay. I can see where that could get time consuming. However, if a call is made wrong and it's on video it should be able to be protested, and if the skater that was a victim to the bad call was in contention in a heat to advance, let the video overrule the call and advance the skater to the next heat or final. So what, you have one extra skater on the line, it works in ice and it'd work in inlines too. If the skater being wrongly DQ'd was way back from the top 3 or 4 skaters advancing and it's obvious he/she didn't have the speed needed to advance then the protest is rejected. All they need is a separate video ref that has a sole job of only reviewing protested calls that are caught on film. If that ref finds the skater was wrongly DQ'd he alone makes the decision to advance the skater to the next heat or final. Oh, and if the protest happens in a final, then in that case only will a race be run again. Just like in the NFL, the call has to be clearly wrong to overturn it and if the rules on what DQ's a skater are clear and not just judgment calls, then video may solve many issues.
I know some are going to say the video thing I mentioned will not work. Some will say it may not work because we don't have all meets on film or all races. Well maybe we'll be helping the economy when everyone that doesn't have one buys a video camera so they can then have their races recorded. USARS may go for this because think of all of the extra $60 they'd take in for people now wanting to record races at Nationals... lol. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: east coast | dopey358 - 2010-07-18 5:12 PM
That sounded rather ominous Jeff.....never been one not to say what I;m thinking and it has OFTEN gotten me AND my team in trouble. Given that....I wouldn't change a word...at least MY conscience is clear.
i could say the same for myself. usarollersports got a bump from the skate in this year. i am sure it will expanded to novice next year also. after that the numbers will start to drop again. unless we get better refs across the board. i take in alot of what you have to say here to help our club and our region. some of us are listening. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 77
Location: Puyallup, WA | First of all, I think before you can evaluate what a rolling referee can see, versus what a standing referee can see - maybe you should try it yourself? It just might give you a different perspective.
Secondly - who in their right mind would want to become an official after reading this thread? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 185
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska | puredomination - 2010-07-18 10:20 PM
USARS may go for this because think of all of the extra $60 they'd take in for people now wanting to record races at Nationals... lol.
Off topic... but I think they should get rid of this $60 fee. Do you know how many digital video cameras, point-and-shoots, DSLR with HD Video, Phones, etc.... that are capable of shooting better video that the old school tape camera.... Countless! |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: east coast | RPfander3 - 2010-07-19 12:02 PM
First of all, I think before you can evaluate what a rolling referee can see, versus what a standing referee can see - maybe you should try it yourself? It just might give you a different perspective.
Secondly - who in their right mind would want to become an official after reading this thread?
for what ever reason my son loves it. but is not given the chance. some say he is pretty good at it. and he can keep up with the race. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 77
Location: Puyallup, WA | Jeff,
I referee'd for a long time (and still do occasionally). I have seen many good officials take a lot of unfair criticism (myself included). When a skater gets disqualified, even if they really did do something wrong - they are not happy about the disqualification. Every referee knows that he is about to make someone unhappy as soon as he puts that whistle in his (or her) mouth. I believe that the officials try to make fair calls. None of them want to appear unfair or inept - especially when so many people are watching. Yes, they definitely miss things, and sometimes they even get things wrong - they are human. But coming on here and complaining about how the officials suck is not going to make them do any better. In fact - it may have the opposite effect, and we could lose some of the "good" ones. Who wants to do a job, to the best of their ability - only to have an entire thread on the hyper board full of people telling them what a bad job they do? We need to give the referees way more credit. They do this job because they love our sport. They don't do it because they get a big financial reward. Refereeing is hard work, long days on your skates, for $40 a day (figure it out per hour) and with people constantly unhappy that you called them out - or even if you didn't call someone else out that they think you should have.
Instead of the non-referees telling them how to do their job better - maybe we should listen to what they have to say (since they are the ones out there actually doing it). If they say that they can't see the race as effectively if they are stationary - why isn't anyone listening to them? If they say that the quickest way to get a disqualified skater out of the race is to whistle him out (instead of radioing it in to an announcer), why don't we believe it?
Basically - I think that before anyone can say that one way is better than the other - then they need to have tried both methods. If you haven't given each way a fair trial (at an INDOOR MEET), then you are just guessing, and that doesn't help us with anything. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: east coast | well we will have to wait and see. i think they have tried this in fla. i also think you would be more qualified at this point because you race in the present time. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 182
Location: Reading, PA | My personal opinion is to try the suggestions... Try it at the grassroots level, in the leagues, and report back to the NGB. Tell them what works and what doesn't. I have tried a few different ways of officiating and I have my own opinions but I'm not opposed to trying it at the grassroots level and giving everyone a fair shot at evaluating.
This debate happens every year. At invitationals and regionals referees are treated like gold and the calls are often better and more consistent because they are fed, well rested, and respected. At Nationals, referees work long hours, are under staffed, and in the past haven't been treated very well. There are ways and then there are ways of improving how the officiating is at Nationals. While this board is a valuable source for information and ideas, they can not stop here. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 431
| Yeah I know about the digital camera situation that now record in HD. I have one but I forgot to bring it. I was going to sneak in a new HD video camera I purchased but forgot that too. So guess what, I recorded a couple of my sons races for him on his iPhone 4 since it also records in HD video now. 720P (I think) verses the camera I left at home at 1080p, but still 720p from a cell phone! USARS should definitely drop this charge because they surely can't police people recording on cell phones. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Fort Pierce, FL | We have been using standing refs for years in South Florida and I personally have been a skater; ref; meet director; coach; league president; regional chairman; etc. etc. since 1964. So I believe I can speak from multiple sides of this issue and say that it works far better. I may, as a coach, request clarification for a particular subjective call but it has been some years since I have gotten mad at a referee because he saw it differently than I may have. Where my problems arise is with certain rules, and the interpretation of same, that do not do what rules are intended to do which is to level the playing field for all competitors and the use of these same rules by some (not all) referees to penalize certain skaters, coaches and/or teams and to show them "who is the boss". I can site at least three examples from this years IDN which prove this point but I won't as that would be singling out individuals for criticism which is not my objective as "the past is the past.
One has only to look at a recent article in the USARS magazine to see that certain individuals wearing stripes believe they are they ONLY ones who should decide how officiating should be done and that coaches should just coach and leave the job of officiating to the professionals. That's like leaving the job of governing up to the politicians and not listening to the voice of the people because we are not familiar with how to govern effectively.
I'm not, and never will, suggest we " throw the baby out with the bath water" and totally reinvent the wheel.....just at least look at better ways to do thinks and come up with some sort of evaluation system that can be mutually developed by all the parties involved.
Harry |
|
| |
Officiating at IDN
